Sunday, March 19, 2006

Pentecostal Fraudulent Style of Thinking

Pentecostal Fraudulent Style of Thinking

In dealing with Pentecostals, one will notice that even among those who are intelligent, that they have a particular style of thinking that resists open and rational discourse. One will notice that in debates with Pentecostals that it is extremely difficult to get them to focus upon the issue. One will notice several errors in thinking and logic among them when speaking with them, even if they are intelligent.

The central characteristic of Pentecostal thinking is The Hustle. They do not use ideas AS IDEAS, but as a way to manipulate people. This is a very important point in discussions with Pentecostals. Notice that they will pick up and use slogans without much logical connection to the subject at hand. The also will use Suggestibility and Rhetoric as substitutes for logic and reason. Thus the frustration that one encounters when speaking and discussing things with Pentecostals is that they are not discussing things with you to arrive at the Truth of an issue, but they are trying to manipulate you to believe what they believe and to do what they want you to do. One can understand this by recalling a discussion you may have had with someone you have a disagreement with on a particular issue. Often, rational people will agree to disagree. They can understand the logic of the other person, respect their position as a valid argument, but disagree with the argument possibly because they are starting from differing premises or ground rules. This is the proper way to disagree with people.

However, when a Pentecostal cannot get you to agree with his memorized slogans or his procedure to manipulate you into doing and thinking in his way, he will dispense with you as a corrupt, or even as an evil person. Furthermore, if his mind is working even at a deficient level of efficiency, and part of his mind can see that you have a valid point, he will immediately recognize your “logic” as a threat and he is likely to attack you personally, and accuse you of ulterior motives for holding such “logic.” However, he cannot see that his response is not a rational response to a respectable argument, but a change in the context – he changes the subject from the topic at hand to you personally, and proceeds with this attack. This, I assert is the basis of FRAUD. This is why Pentecostal methods of preaching, recruiting, and thinking are fraudulent. It is based upon a faulty system whereby the person is not bound by the ground rules of a logical system. They are not engaging in a debate or discussion with you; they are trying to manipulate you. They might try to deceive you into thinking that they are open to discussion or a respectable debate, but they are not; they are being deceitful, crafty, irrational, and devious. Again, go back and read what I described above. If they talk to you and then proceed to attack you personally instead of focusing upon the subject at hand, they are playing a manipulation game and not entering into a serious discussion. When they accuse you of bitterness without listening to your arguments, they are hustling you; the same goes for any other number of epithets they use to dismiss you and attack you personally, like backslider, reprobate, rebellious, etc.

Another form of the hustle to manipulate you is when they try to bait you. They will attempt to find a hot-button issue to push on you to get you frustrated and angry. In their minds, when you respond to them with anger to their provocations they become smug in their attitude that you are “angry and bitter.” Well, do you notice the blatant manipulating deceit in this technique? They try to get you angry so they can dismiss you! They bait you in order to dismiss you as angry and bitter! How is that for intellectual fraud? An illustration is when they might say that because you wear makeup, you are trying to incite lust in men so that they will want to go to bed with you the same evening. On the face, such a statement is ludicrous and insane; however, they are trying to bait you into getting angry, so that they can dismiss you. Again, this is not honest debate; this is intellectual fraud. (Furthermore, on a side issue, I think that this could be connected to the criminal mind, but that is for further analysis later.)

One can also ponder the effects of such a corrupt form of discourse on the morals of Pentecostals. How can this affect their ability to tell the truth? How can this affect their honesty? Can you really trust what they say? Are they trying to manipulate you? Are they trying to manipulate people on the job in the same manner? Also, I think that this can explain the connection to certain periodic frauds among Pentecostals like multi-level marketing schemes, and other business scams we hear about so prevalent among Pentecostals. Multi-level marketing schemes are usually based upon the hustle also: manipulating ones feelings with visions of millions of dollars without any serious logical explanation as to where all this money will come from, and how can one make such huge amounts of money will little effort – logic please?

Always be aware of Pentecostals trying the intellectual hustle on you. They are very well trained in fraud and baiting you. Do not fall for the fraud or the bait.



derkrash-at-earthlink-dot-net
JP Istre

10 comments:

Timuth said...

when i started going to a pentecostal church, my thought process changed to where I was very scared that something bad would happen to me if I didn't obey the voice in my head which I believed was God's voice. (I still kind of beleive it was God's voice, I'm still confused 10 years later).

I'd been Christian for a long time but this element of fear was something new.

I beleived i really had to make converts, and therefore I would dismiss people's logical objections as 'lies of the enemy' or something like that.

Anonymous said...

THANKYOU ! Now I dont feel as I am alone, I regualry discuss christianity with pentecostals, but they bully and yell and twist everything, and when I dont bite and fight back they become personal and harass me and insult me. Glad to hear it is not a personal thing, but they are programmed to act in this way. They believe their own lies is their only problem.

dudette11 said...

My brother is a Lutheran pastor with a doctrine degree and is president of a college in China. I have been dating a man who names himself a christian and does not like denominations. I told my brother of my unhappiness and only problems were regarding "religion".He explained "jeff" seemed to have Pentecostal thinking and might as well have read this article. Bullying is a good term. It's a no win conversation and walk away. Thank you so much as I have been on the phone with him while reading this and identifying but not heeding my own advice. I have found out "jeff" is/was pentecostal!

Gwendolyn said...

I see this kind of thinking infiltrating other church bodies as well as penticostal. I believe it is directly related with an attitude of arrogance and pride that they are superior to whom those they are speaking, so anything goes to win. I also believe it is a result of the self esteem teaching. We are seeing more and more rampant Narcissism in the church than ever before. "One up manship" has become more prevalent because more people are interested in impressing people rather than searching for the truth. They like to throw around righteous sounding cliche's and "knowledge" to attempt to appear superior. Many of these people may never have been saved to begin with, and display manipulative tacts because of their narcissism.

diana gilroy said...

I was raised in Pentecostalism, and got out of it when I was 15 years old, I started questioning it a year prior to that. I started wanting real hardcore evidence that shouting and dancing up and down the aisles were supernaturally influenced. When I finally came back to Christianity, I was still having doubts about Pentecostalism. I started looking it up and it eased my doubts. I remembered being programmed to think that, even questioning this erratic behavior was somehow blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and therefore I was doomed to Hell. It just got to the point where I said to God "I'm questioning speaking in tongues and shouting, could you please just show me that it is ok to question." What I would like to say to people, especially those that are teenagers in this group that it is ok to want proof, it is ok to question and doubt a little. It is better than driving yourself crazy and being depressed because you think you are doing something wrong. God is not going to give you over to a reprobate mind.

Anonymous said...

I agree...very well written/explained

Pat Dendy said...

PENTECOSTAL PROGRAMMING WHETHER BY PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES OR A LONG LIST OF CHARISMATIC CHURCHES WITH PENTECOSTAL PRACTICES (CHURCH OF GOD, CHURCH OF GOD OF PROPHESY, ASSEMBLY OF GOD, BAPTIST PENTECOSTALS, MENNONITES) OR ANY OTHER CHURCH OR NUMBERS OF CHURCHES THAT PRACTICES BAPTISIM BY THE HOLY GHOST ARE:

************************************************************************************

INTERFERRING WITH AND/OR BLOCKING ANY OR ALL EXECUTIVE FUNCTION

************************************************************************************

IF YOU DO NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT EXECUTIVE FUNCTION IS, LOOK IT UP ON LINE. YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OF YOUR OWN INTELLECTUAL FUNCTION.

************************************************************************************

Pat Dendy said...

PENTECOSTAL PROGRAMMING WHETHER BY PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES OR A LONG LIST OF CHARISMATIC CHURCHES WITH PENTECOSTAL PRACTICES (CHURCH OF GOD, CHURCH OF GOD OF PROPHESY, ASSEMBLY OF GOD, BAPTIST PENTECOSTALS, MENNONITES) OR ANY OTHER CHURCH OR NUMBERS OF CHURCHES THAT PRACTICES BAPTISIM BY THE HOLY GHOST ARE:

************************************************************************************

INTERFERRING WITH AND/OR BLOCKING ANY OR ALL EXECUTIVE FUNCTION

************************************************************************************

IF YOU DO NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT EXECUTIVE FUNCTION IS, LOOK IT UP ON LINE. YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OF YOUR OWN INTELLECTUAL FUNCTION.

************************************************************************************

Anonymous said...

After 25 years my wife of a Pentecostal family divorced me. After reading this it detailed the outline of my entire ex-inlaw's family structure. They are ALL narcissists. It's never their fault, alwsy flip the blame onto someone else and when they aren't the center of attention they interrupt and take over with bullying their way into anything and they always have excuses when they get caught lying, stealing, cheating, and even sleeping with one another. Yes, her uncle became the minister in their church only to be caught sleeping with his nephews wife and the entire family turned their back on the nephew, saying it was his fault! Yes, they all coveted the minister and said God would forgive him but the nephew who was the youth leader in the church was kicked out of the church because his wife was sleeping with the minister! Now you explain that and I'll buy you a full course dinner at the restaurant of your choice! I bailed her family out of debt to the tune of thousands of dollars and only to be turned on by all of them when it was my ex that left because she was sleeping with another person!!! That was my fault too according to them. Are like this? I'm going to have say not all are, but the majority are all fake.

Anonymous said...

I finally left the Pentecostal faith, if it can be called a faith. Everything I did was wrong because their doctrines spring from the will of John Wesley's Holiness Doctrine of the 18th century. Wesley formulated that doctrine when he was in seminary and not even a Christian but a religious youth trying to please God via works. Every discussion about Jesus, the Holy Spirit, salvation, or even everyday work or sports was met with criticism and condescension, to the point of shaming a person for just breathing.
One day I finally realized it was never me that was wrong. It was their Hyper-Holiness that leads to condemnation, manipulation, narcissism, and an authoritarian style of leadership that fears evaluation and punishes questions. When I became seriously ill it was because I didn't have enough faith, when I married my now ex-wife they ostracized me literally. One of the worship leaders saw me talking to her in the hallway (before we even dated) and said I should stay away because God showed them she was a Jezebel. Supposedly God gave them this revelation while they were on the platform worshiping! The said she would destroy my life. That woman was the sweetest kindest person I had ever met. What did destroy me was their words and doctrine so much that I feared they were right after we were married, even though she didn't do anything to warrant suspicion. Their Holiness doctrine and their doctrine about the five-fold ministries authority is what leads to narcissistic manipulation. The final straw came when I decided to go back to school after much prayer. I chose to pursue a professional counseling degree. The same people who encouraged me to go now told me I was stealing from tax-payers by taking out loans. I was disabled for years and finally able to do something to better my life by the grace of God and that was their response. Another one said that psychology was of the devil but then they endorsed yet twisted psychological principles that ruined marriages because they didn't know what they were doing. One so-called counselor was later found to hate men and was twisting co-dependency and enablement teachings to turn the wives against husbands. It was only after enough men complained to the pastor that she was fired.
To be clear, I am not opposed to the gifts or miracles of the Holy Spirit nor the modern worship, but I am opposed to the demonic and harmful Hyper-Holiness that enslaves men to works and attempts to be like God through law, works, self-effort and doing good and avoiding evil; the same trap that ensnared Adam and Eve. In short, it is a system of demonic condemnation and self exaltation that does not liberate but enslaves and wounds. And when they wound the sheep they rarely do follow up reconciliation but gossip and destroy the sheep's reputation. I will never go back.