Tuesday, November 11, 2008

Local Church Claims Others are all Wrong

A local church reports that Christianity as a whole has it all wrong. The Reverend Billy Gooseneck of the local Apostolic Beacon church just outside the city limits informs this newspaper that church should not be “dead, dull and boring” but lively like a football game. He mentioned that some scripture speaks of having life “more abundantly.” Supposedly, this “abundant life” means a wild church service complete with screaming by the pastor and some of the congregants. Some members – in fact, most members – “run the aisles” in the midst of fast paced music, screaming like wild hogs, reports Jim Robinson, who lives three houses from the church. Other visitors report strange, occult-like practices like ecstatic speech bursting forth from the mouths of congregants, usually called “speaking in tongues,” although no one knows what language they are speaking. This reporter could not recover any records of this Rev. Gooseneck having any college diploma from any accredited, known university. The Rev. Gooseneck claims that the Christian doctrine of the Trinity is all wrong. He says that there are not three Gods in heaven, but one. Asked to explain which churches teach that there are three Gods, Gooseneck replied that most churches do, with the exception of Apostolic Beacon.

This reporter interviewed over 30 pastors in this city and could not find any who claims that there are three gods. Furthermore, Gooseneck said that Jesus is the name of the Father. Asked for proof, he replied that Jesus once said, “I and my Father are one.” Pressed for a direct answer and an explanation from the Bible, Gooseneck simply responded, “You cannot understand because you do not have the Holy Ghost.” This reporter asked about this “Holy Ghost.” Gooseneck said that this is the spirit of God that “falls” on people and the person talks in tongues when it happens. Asked for the basis of this idea, Gooseneck responded that the Bible says so, although he could only point to certain scriptures where foreign languages were spoken, but not the ecstatic mumbling that goes on at Apostolic Beacon. Asked what language this causes people to speak, Gooseneck responded that it was a “heavenly language.” Asked for the basis of this idea, Gooseneck responded that those with the Holy Ghost just “know” these things. Asked why people ran around screaming and shouting during church, Gooseneck could only point to the scriptures where during the Day of Pentecost people thought those in the upper room were drunk. Asked for specifics from the New Testament about running around, shouting, dancing, screaming, moaning, Gooseneck could not respond and just said this was the way the early church did it. This reporter could not find anywhere in the New Testament where churches acted so strangely. Gooseneck then said that unless one was baptized in Jesus’ name and filled with the Holy Ghost and talking in tongues, one would go straight to hell. Again, Gooseneck could not show this with scripture. Asked why his women only wore dresses, Gooseneck said that pants were men’s clothes. Asked about women’s pants, Gooseneck somehow thinks that this is men’s apparel.

Others who know church members report that these people are strange. The women are pale faced and have long hair. The young people do not go out to dances and do not make friends with other people. The people appear to be scared of Gooseneck and would only speak about him in terms that he is the “best Pastor” and the “greatest pastor on Earth.” Occasionally, people would go around harassing people in some ritual called “Door knocking.” These people would explain that Acts 2:38 was a “Plan of Salvation.” Traditional churches in the area deny that there is such thing as a plan of salvation.

This reporter will keep an eye on these strange people. They tend to be somewhat at the lower end of the economic scale and are always broke. The pastor demands 10% of people’s paycheck. The regional IRS was asked if this was legal; he responded that it sounded strange, but appears legal – in most cases. Former members of the church were interviewed; they hate everyone and everything about Gooseneck’s church. Church members spread hatred and slander against them after they left. Many went to drug use to cope with the pain inflicted on them. In conclusion, the people of this church are indeed a strange bunch.

Filed by you local newspaper.

Association of Former Pentecostals


Anonymous said...

great blog I am an ex pentecostal pastor check out my new blog expastortalks.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

Where is the Christian love here,
interesting, people who find fault are ex-pentecostals.
What church do they now attend?
Many churches are off the tract of
true Bible teachings.
Most follow the teachings of the Roman Church, including some teachings in the pentecostal churches and most others.
Simply check it out in the Holy Scriptures as to its truth.
God is Love, and He told us to love our neighbors.

Pastor Dave said...

I am an ex-Lutheran who survived the hypocrisy of finger pointing, spiritually dead (ie., w/o works), litugically vapid and culturally irrelevant lutherans. Do you think I sould start a blog?

I now thrive as a pastor of a Pentecostal (AG) Church. It only took a miracle from Christ to save me from that dead church.

Anonymous said...

Hi. I was wondering if as an ex pentacostal if you could comment or critique my theory regarding speaking in tongues:

Speaking in tongues is an illusion of the mind. Its got nothing to do with the Holy Spirit and is extremely down to earth and has a lot to do with the human mind. Here is the theory behind it:

When we speak, we do not just use our mouth; we use our ears as well. Our ears help us correct in an instantaneous manner any errors made by our mouth. Its the reason why amateur singers who can't hear what they are singing would sing out of tune, and why deaf people can't pronounce words well. Its because they don't have hearing and hearing is an integral element of proper speech.

So what makes a person who speaks in tongues thinks he has no control of his speech? The reason if you haven't noticed is when a person first speaks in tongue it is often done in a very noisy environment. The entire congregation speaks in tongue, or the band plays a tranceful music etc etc. As a result, the person who speaks in tongue have a hard time listening to what his own mouth is uttering. So he may say "Ha Ba Mu" but his ears hear "Mo Lah Ham Ni Asi". This together with his trance like conditioned mind (a religious experience) convinced him that his mouth is moving involuntarily and he is experiencing something out of this world. So he becomes a believer in speaking in tongues.

After a few more of this session, his confidence grows and then he no longer need loud music or a congregation speaking in tongue together to get the effect. He would utter something and is convinced it is supernatural because he remembers his first time, it was a supernatural occurance.

So recap: 2 ingredients are needed to stimulate a person to first speak in tongue:
1) A "religious" experience (in technical theory: a stimulation of the brain's temporal lobes) through chanting or bringing one to a highly emotional state
2) A "noisy" environment where one is unable to hear one's own voice.

Bekah said...

I LOVE your blog. I was raised in a oneness pentecostal home an entire 18 years before I moved away to college IMMEDIATELY when I started school 3 years ago. I've been searching for the truth, trinity sites, books, authors, you name it. My fiance, also raised in a sister church of the one I was raised in, has also left; and we frequently discuss our disbelief in the dogma we were taught. His sister left for a Baptist church when the pentecostal church told her she couldn't sing in the choir as long as she wore makeup and cut her hair, and she said she hasn't been happier. I love reading about ex-pentecostals who feel the same as I do and can give me some answers. I've yet to find a happy place in my beliefs, but I know that regardless of my understanding of it, the trinity is real. The two times I have mentioned to my parents that I didn't believe you had to speak in tongues to go to heaven, I was SCREAMED at how I was hell-bound and how I was raised better, so we avoid the conversation all together now. Despite being saved when I was 8, my parents still proceed to tell other pentecostals in my (and my apparently non-saved sister's presence) how they are so proud of us but wish we were "in church" so that we wouldn't go to hell. This in normal conversations! Why can't I just have a normal God-fearing, dancing, game-going, movie theatre-going family who doesn't freak out every time I mention going to a trinitarian church?! Anyway, sorry about my venting...I am just so glad to have come across your blog.

Faithful Witness said...

It is nice to meet a brother who has escaped the deathgrip of the oneness heresy. Please check out my new blog, I think you might enjoy it.

Lutherius said...

Pastor Dave,

I find it very hard to believe that you were once a Lutheran and are now a Pentecostal.

A person does not often go from Intellectualism to pure irrationalism.


Anonymous said...

I recently came accross your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.



Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Cody said...

Christians satire. Nice. We need more of this. Reminds me of Tom In The Box:


They have some funny stuff every now and then that I occasionally post on my own blog. If you don't mind mean-spirited Calvinists, they can be quite hilarious.

Anonymous said...

To those who are attacking Lutherius - I don't know what his true intentions are, but I agree with him, and I assure you that I speak out of love and concern. Pentecostalism is inherently irrational and dangerous, and sets people up for hurt and disillusionment. Almost everyone I know who has left the Christian church and become atheist or agnostic had left it through the Pentecostal Church. Many people from other denominations, when they come to Pentecostal churches, leave feeling disturbed and alienated by their strange practices. Why do you think these things occur? When my father was in college, a pentecostal woman came up to him and told him very sternly that God commanded her [through some unknown means] that they should be married, and that by not marrying they would be disobeying God. (My father refused by the way.) I have seen this kind of mentality among pentecostals today - they act on the most random whims, they claim miracles out of ordinary occurrences. It doesn't make sense to act at random and then pin God's name on everything you do. In fact, that is dangerous. I get a very uneasy feeling any time I go to such a church, and believe me, I am sure that this uneasiness comes from the Holy Spirit. When you allow your emotions and mental processes to be played on by men like this, you are making yourself vulnerable to any number of things. When they speak in tongues, they are just making noise; when the apostles were speaking tongues at pentecost, they were speaking actual languages which they would use to bring the gospel to all the nations, and they had interpreters. The modern practice is of no avail.

I am not doubting whether or not pentecostals are Christians, but I encourage anyone who is in a pentecostal church to at least be careful in what they are being taught.

Anonymous said...

I attend a Lutheran church now and no longer associate with the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements and I have discovered a new freedom and simplicity in my life. The Bible is still important to me and I still confess Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Anonymous said...

Great blog! I hate churches that are really boring and pastors that think everything they don't do is a sin such as a guy wearing women's pants. I hate when they get caught up in the little things instead of teaching what is right, such as the word of god.

Anonymous said...

I thought Paul commanded that only
two or three should speak in tongues and only if the meaning was
interpreted by another. If there was no interpretation then the speaker should remain silent......

On the day of Pentecost it was different languages they were speaking.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad to see how some of the Pentecostal ppl like to pick their verses from the Bible to try and argue their case. So, as you carry on the "Bible is the Truth" anything in it is truth, then why don't you do some reading in 1st Corinthians 14:23. Really all of Corinthians should help you realize that tongues are a gift, but to be used intelligently, not for everyone to be acting crazy all at once. Do some reading about spiritual gifts, speaking in tongues is not the only one-it says that in the Bible, and also that not everyone receives the same gifts--so, all I'm saying is, latching on to a few verses from the Bible is wrong, you can't say, oh Holy Spirit gets ya tongues, you're saved. Read some more, educate yourself.

Brench said...

I will begin by noting that reports like Jim Robinson's are often from the perspective of somebody that already has a dissapproval of Pentecostals. Also, speaking in tongues is not an occult practice unless you consider the account in Acts 2 to be occult as well.
Rev. Gooseneck is correct in his statement about the Trinity. There is no support for it. Any claim to a "three in one" God is effectively a claim to tritheism. It denies three gods in word only, not in operation.
If Jesus is the name of God, that would make Jesus the name of the Father. Why so? Because Jesus is God revealed in flesh, God made flesh.
What is occurring at Apostolic Beacon is only deemed "ecstatic mumbling" by those that choose to criticize it. Paul spoke in the languages of men and of angels. The language of angels would indeed be a "heavenly language" would it not?.
The description of Apostolic Beacon's services (running, shouting, etc.) sounds like people getting excited, doesn't it? When the Spirit of God moves on somebody, they get excited!
While Gooseneck may not be right to condemn people to hell for not being baptized in Jesus' name and filled with the Holy Ghost, his point is vindicated by scripture. The truth the apostles died for consisted of repentance, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost, which scripturally is alway accompanied by speaking in tongues as the Spirit of God gives the utterance.
Gooseneck said pants were men's clothing. He is correct. Until recent years, pants have always been men's clothing. The problem with women's pants is that they are still pants, manly apparel. In addition, women's pants typically hug the body and follow the female curves, a sexual appeal for the majority of men. Doesn't the Bible mention that we should dress modestly?
The women are probably "pale-faced" because they don't wear makeup. There are numerous reasons for this practice. Vanity is the main one.
The women have long hair because of Paul's explanation of why it should not be cut in 1 Corinthians 11.
As far as "door knocking," aren't we Christians supposed to share our faith? Just because traditional churches deny it does not mean it isn't there.
Income is no indicator of truth.
Tithing, giving 10% of one's income to the church, is not an uncommon practice.
Backsliders often do turn to drugs and other worldly ways. But that has little to do with the church.

Overall, I can say that Gooseneck was not a very good representative of the Oneness Pentecostal movement. If he desires to impact the community, he should take a more loving approach. He could have given better responses to the interviewer. In all his points, however, he is vindicated by scripture.

Beaux Hargrove

Anonymous said...

I left Pentecostal/Charismatic for Lutheran. This surprise me too but am very happy with lutheran solid teaching.

Anonymous said...

I left Oneness church, and every other church for that matter...but now have the time and focus to dedicate and consecrate, without denomination intrusions, to research and study biblical perspective spiritual issues and especially Ante-Nicene history.

It seems to me if you want to get something professional accomplished (college, etc), you have to leave the Oneness movement or have 1000% support and encouragement. It is just that way. It also seems it is more of a familial environment and having a full head of jet black hair helps.
My 2 cents worth.

Anonymous said...

Leave it to the Pentecostals to act weird and call it the Holy Spirit. Of course, the "Apostolic" church will deny Scripture. All these fakeys do. I was terribly damaged by a charismatic who won't leave me alone. She is forceful and demonic and several people think she is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Even my pastor is deceived. He says tongues are in the Bible and they are.
However, they were different languages, not the gibberish that humans glorify themeselves with today.

Kayla Cook said...

Before you make accusations about a religion, you should certainly know it better, research more in depth, and know the God as well as His Word.
If one is to claim them self as a Christian, realize God would not go around judging others. What would Jesus do?

Anonymous said...


How much time will we have to list all our criticisms, negative opinion, judgment,and anything else in such category, to God on the last day (judgment day) when everyone will have to give account of themselves, not a particular Church to God who weighs the heart of men?

Do you think God cares about a 'named' denomination more than the individual who loves him? Yet we focus more on which denomination we attend than God who desires a relationship with us.

I do not believe that God will be looking for Pentecostals, baptists, Lutherans, or any other denomination when He starts passing judgment. Do you love me may be one of his questions?

Best wishes.

Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

Someone said: 'How much time will we have to list all our criticisms, negative opinion, judgment,and anything else in such category, to God on the last day (judgment day) when everyone will have to give account of themselves'. However, this applies only to non-Christains since Matt 12: 36 says this occurs on the day of judgement, but Christians are not judged (John 12: 48)!

Angelo Cardinal Fratelli said...

Ironically, when you actually start researching the early Church, you start seeing not Pentecostalism or even Protestantism but Catholicism. This John Henry Newman observed when he said "To be deep into history is to cease being Protestant."

God bless you brother.

Anonymous said...

I am an Ex AG pastor now Lutheran. Why would you trade the Body and Blood of Christ for a sensation? I had enough of emotionalism good-bye General Council...Hello Lord Jesus Chist!

Anonymous said...

Beaux Hargrove said: "Until recent years, pants have always been men's clothing..." However, that is not correct. During the times of Christ, women AND men wore robes (most comparable to skirts). So, if we followed your philosophy, then technically everyone should be wearing skirts as Christ did. Just an thought...